Curse

Bright Star Shine · Jun 08, 2011, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Until the update last thursday I never Codex'ed before in my entire life. I didn't even have the title displayed. After the update, I tried it a couple times with some guildies. The first day we got like 5 points, nothing big, but we had a lot of fun. The next day, builds changed, we very quickly found a very strong spike bar and farmed like 35 points. Then the skills changed again, we quickly found a new strong build and farmed over 150 points, and the strange part is, we had an incredible amount of fun.

I never tried Codex before, because everything I heard about it was negative. Also, it was just completely dead, at least, I think so. Now that I've tried it, I have to admit that I find it incredibly fun, and the idea of Codex isn't actually so bad if you look at it. It prevents a retarded META from taking place and ir forces people to be creative with their builds every day.

Except for the fact that skills used to change every 6 hours, why did people hate Codex so much?

*lemming* · Jun 08, 2011, 08:17 AM // 08:17

1. Low population

2. Stigma from first months, before updates implementing banned skills

3. Long setup time

4. People being bad at making builds

I'm sure I'm missing some reasons and there's a lot of elaboration to be done on all of these points, but it's a start, right?

Bright Star Shine · Jun 08, 2011, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Yeah, sure, I'm just wondering. Because, having done as much DoA as I have, and that being virtually all my guild does, I'm looking around to do new stuff, and strangely, Codex is the most fun I've had in the last couple of weeks in GW. I can see why people hated it a bit (replacing TA, although that might have been an improvement, seeing how broken TA was in some ways, sort of replacing HB, but we can all agree that that was broken as well...) but the way I'm experiencing it now, it's a lot of fun.. Especially with half baked teams running around, waiting to give you free points..

Elnino · Jun 08, 2011, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Additionally, rank discrimination did play a part in the format's demise. Unfortunately, even though rank discrimination is a necessary part of group formation, it discouraged unranked players from attempting the format and drove away a large portion of the playerbase.

The rampant abuse of dervish and paragon elite skills during its initial phase didn't help either.

Bright Star Shine · Jun 08, 2011, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Hmmm, I guess that could play a role, but since I don't PUG stuff, ever, and I am always on TS with my mates, it makes the format a lot easier to play. And a lot more fun too..

chullster · Jun 08, 2011, 08:47 AM // 08:47

The title is meaningless too, people use bots in dead hours to farm points, and now strongboxes too I guess, same as gvg was mentioned in another thread.

So I'm glad you're playing it for fun.

lursey · Jun 08, 2011, 08:56 AM // 08:56

codex supposed to be fun when winning, but not constantly losing.

Low population because, not many people can make a working build for 4 which is constantly winning than losing most of the time.

Bright Star Shine · Jun 08, 2011, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

codex supposed to be fun when winning, but not constantly losing.

Low population because, not many people can make a working build for 4 which is constantly winning than losing most of the time.

Perhaps you should suggest that when you win in Codex you can choose the builds for everyone, then they don't have to make their own...

I don't know, the biggest streak we've had so far is 17, most of our streaks range from getting curb stomped by a gold trim cape on the first match to an average of about 7-9 wins and the occasional 10+. I don't mind, because you learn a lot from losing as well. We've grown to become that bastard team that curb stomps noobs the entire time, but pales to the real pro's. But so far, I've never had any spiteful feelings when losing, because even when we lose, we at least make a good battle out of it and usually at least score 1 kill..

Just because I know who you are I'm gonna say this again: if you don't know how to make builds in PvP, don't QQ that you get rolled. Codex is the best proof of this because the entire idea is to make the best team build as fast as possible with very limited recourses...

Elnino · Jun 08, 2011, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

I don't know, the biggest streak we've had so far is 17, most of our streaks range from getting curb stomped by a gold trim cape on the first match to an average of about 7-9 wins and the occasional 10+. I don't mind, because you learn a lot from losing as well. We've grown to become that bastard team that curb stomps noobs the entire time, but pales to the real pro's. But so far, I've never had any spiteful feelings when losing, because even when we lose, we at least make a good battle out of it and usually at least score 1 kill..

Sadly, many people do not share the same mentality as you and your friends.

lursey · Jun 08, 2011, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Perhaps you should suggest that when you win in Codex you can choose the builds for everyone, then they don't have to make their own...

I don't know, the biggest streak we've had so far is 17, most of our streaks range from getting curb stomped by a gold trim cape on the first match to an average of about 7-9 wins and the occasional 10+. I don't mind, because you learn a lot from losing as well. We've grown to become that bastard team that curb stomps noobs the entire time, but pales to the real pro's. But so far, I've never had any spiteful feelings when losing, because even when we lose, we at least make a good battle out of it and usually at least score 1 kill..

Just because I know who you are I'm gonna say this again: if you don't know how to make builds in PvP, don't QQ that you get rolled. Codex is the best proof of this because the entire idea is to make the best team build as fast as possible with very limited recourses...

you can make best builds...maybe you should like hero battles more...

it is not just simply best build, it is best team + best build....so without either one is = gg to that arena....

you see thats why costume brawl is more favourable than codex arena...

maybe not codex, but you can simply compare the population of hero battles and costume brawl.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Costume_Brawl
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Codex_Arena
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Hero_Battles

Coast · Jun 08, 2011, 11:41 AM // 11:41

codex is fun man.
Started doing it seriously last weekend and this is our best run so far.
Boo @ anet to change skills so our run stopped automatical

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lursey · Jun 08, 2011, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

codex is fun man.
Started doing it seriously last weekend and this is our best run so far.
Boo @ anet to change skills so our run stopped automatical

lol, you see 1 team bested out 74 teams, = win/lose ratio is not even close to 50/50, but largely differentiated, 74 sad teams. 1 team happy but leaving 74 teams sad, you see the problem of why the population is so low?

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 08, 2011, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

1. Low population

Codex Arena originally benefited from a sizable migration of Team Arenas players both American and European. It also gathered a handful of enthusiasts from other high-end guilds like [NOW] and [KMD]. When it started, Codex was an extremely vibrant format despite its glaring flaws.

Arguably the real demise of the format was the skill gap among players. Even during Codex's peak, there were maybe three dozen players who you could say were competitive, and perhaps half those players could reasonably hold for a codex's duration. It reached the point where once any competitive team won a match and it became clear they were nigh unbeatable, they either wouldn't get matches because people wouldn't bother to go back in, or they would get screwed over by spiteful people that would force them out prematurely at bad times.

Quote:

2. Stigma from first months, before updates implementing banned skills

The format had many problems to start which everyone abused, from Armor of Sanctity and Protector's Defense spam to forced stalemates through priest camping in low-damage codices. You had other problems including:

- Established leads for Assassin were always Jagged Strike and Fox Fangs (at the time, on a three second recharge).
- Many of the the other assassin attack skills were more powerful than they are now.
- At the very start, every profession's number of skills was the same which severely hurt the viability of certain professions.

Codex remains unbalanced (mostly for the same reasons that Team Arenas was unbalanced), and certain skills remain problematic, but everything is a cakewalk when you consider its earlier problems, and players for the most part would just skip the obnoxious codices.

Quote:

3. Long setup time

One major problem was that you couldn't see all the skills in a given codex without switching ten characters. Prior to the viewing change, I'd use paw·ned² to add each profession's relevant skills into a bar then export the templates and paste them into team chat.

Another problem was the decision to increase the codex rotation cycle. That made it very hard to stay in for any meaningful duration of time, and if you didn't "click" into a dominant build within the first hour, you were unlikely to get a decent streak (and therefore make title progress).

Also, the rewards for playing Codex Arena sucked outside of the Zaishen Quest, which directly conflicted with making title points.

Quote:

4. People being bad at making builds

In the end, whether or not you could make a build was largely superfluous to whether you could play a build anyways. As an example, when I started Codex, my routine was:

1) Wake up for the first codex rotation, make some ridiculously abusive build, stomp other morning players or insomniacs for 20-30 wins
2) Euros wake up, create some kind of inferior build, and get crushed for 10-20 wins
3) Euros copy our build then stomp us because they're superior technical players
4) We stop for the day because we started around 1 AM EST
5) Euros make a stronger build and viciously bludgeon each other to death for the rest of the Codex

During American hours, the routine was:

1) Get on for the rotation, make some ridiculously abusive build, stomp other Americans for 10-20 wins
2) Americans copy the build, and get crushed for 5-10 wins
3) Americans give up and sync later in the night
4) We stop because of NOPs and the format is empty

Quote:

The title is meaningless too, people use bots in dead hours to farm points, and now strongboxes too I guess, same as gvg was mentioned in another thread.

This hardly is new. Near its (original) demise as a playable format (only two months after its inception), several players discovered you could sync Codex in dead hours much as you could sync Team Arenas, Guild Versus Guild, or Hero Battles. When I first noticed people syncing, I opened a support ticket on PlayNC which evolved into a three-month dialogue with Gaile Gray, including eighty-six screenshots of undeniable syncing evidence. So far as I know, exactly two people received a ban on the completely unrelated issue of using bots. To my knowledge this behavior hasn't changed; people are still syncing the format without penalty, and reporting them does nothing.

Quote:

Additionally, rank discrimination did play a part in the format's demise. Unfortunately, even though rank discrimination is a necessary part of group formation, it discouraged unranked players from attempting the format and drove away a large portion of the playerbase.

Most of the superior players in Codex were also superior players in their original formats. Also, with very few exceptions, Gladiators were stronger than Champions, Champions were stronger than Heroes, syncretic players were stronger than singularly proficient players, and Europeans were stronger than Americans. Also, Europeans were often strong in multiple formats versus one format, and singularly proficient Europeans tended to be nonpareil.

You could argue that players tend to group together on the basis of rank and social networking, and therefore have the advantage of shared playtime and ease of grouping. This may be true, but if this was the case, then unranked players would simply have to do the same to be competitive. This obviously doesn't work because high ranked players who genuinely earn the rank are also stronger than low ranked counterparts.

Quote:

lol, you see 1 team bested out 74 teams, = win/lose ratio is not even close to 50/50, but largely differentiated, 74 sad teams. 1 team happy but leaving 74 teams sad, you see the problem of why the population is so low?

It's more like besting a dozen teams over and over again. There is no one competitive in the format right now. If you get four decent players together, you can easily farm the rank up and make strongboxes.

Coast · Jun 08, 2011, 11:53 AM // 11:53

True, there rly wasn't any competition.
Only 2teams were rly good that we faced, others were terrible to average(as we only died in 3matches).All other 71 were flawless.
At least I'm happy that its not a ghosttown anymore (at least for now)

Xenomortis · Jun 08, 2011, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

lol, you see 1 team bested out 74 teams, = win/lose ratio is not even close to 50/50, but largely differentiated, 74 sad teams. 1 team happy but leaving 74 teams sad, you see the problem of why the population is so low?

Are you saying that it is wrong that one team can beat others so often?

lursey · Jun 08, 2011, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Are you saying that it is wrong that one team can beat others so often?

you have to define what is wrong..because I do not make judgment on what is right or what is wrong... I just give opinion on something I see.

you can say it is right to have a game only cater for a small percentage of players, but that's your own opinion.

however what I feel right is when the game is only cater for small percentage of population, the result will be only having a small population playing.. this is what I think is right to my idea...

but whether is good only having a small population playing is up for discussion...

Xenomortis · Jun 08, 2011, 12:08 PM // 12:08

I really cannot make sense of your posts anymore; but you seem to think there is something wrong with a team that is clearly better than anyone else there beating everyone.

lursey · Jun 08, 2011, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I really cannot make sense of your posts anymore; but you seem to think there is something wrong with a team that is clearly better than anyone else there beating everyone.

system that caters for a larger population can also have a clear winner, so as a system that cater for a smaller population..

if you say that there is nothing wrong with a team that is clearly better than anyone else in the current situation, are you saying that you prefer a system that cater for a smaller population?

so I was asking for your clarification on wrong is whether a smaller population is right or wrong, or whether there is a clear winner on a system is right or wrong.

the first one I will say I prefer a system cater for a larger population, whereas the second I don't think it is wrong to have a clear winner on any system, however if the winner is too clear, then meaning there is no competition.

QoH · Jun 08, 2011, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Some professions suck way more than others in Codex(which can be a problem for people who want to stick with their favourite profession). Rangers are worst in my opinion, it's pretty impossible to create a half decent ranger bar and any team who is aiming for 3+ wins will never ever look for a ranger.
Codex gonna be dead empty again, after the hype with those(2) quests goes down.

Bright Star Shine · Jun 08, 2011, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by QoH

Some professions suck way more than others in Codex(which can be a problem for people who want to stick with their favourite profession). Rangers are worst in my opinion, it's pretty impossible to create a half decent ranger bar and any team who is aiming for 3+ wins will never ever look for a ranger.
Codex gonna be dead empty again, after the hype with those(2) quests goes down.

False, yesterday we were running a Fragspike with a burning arrow ranger that had Poison with 0 Wilderness, it rocked. You gotta run whatever is strong that day..

Btw, coast, whenever you need someone for Codex, you got my IGN^^ I'm really loving it :P